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Ambulance Insights
In this short series, hosts Lindsay Mackay ASM and Han-Wei Lee ASM explore the disparities between rural and metropolitan emergency medical services. The series aims to unpack the complex issues affecting care delivery across different geographies and share strategies to improve equity and access.
Ambulance Insights
Behind the Mic: Meet Your Hosts
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A paramedic with 25 years of shift work… who doesn’t drink coffee? Yes, we were suspicious too.
In this special episode of Ambulance Insights, we flip the mic around and introduce the voices behind the podcast. Get to know your hosts, their backgrounds, their experiences on the road, and the moments that shaped why this podcast exists in the first place.
It’s honest, light‑hearted, and a little bit unexpected, with plenty of laughs along the way. Whether you’re brand new to the podcast or have been following the series, this is the perfect place to start.
Real stories with no caffeine required...
Brought to you by Corvanta and the CAA.
We thought maybe we should share a little bit about ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I answered an ad in the paper for secondary triage nurses back in 2003, and that was my first real stint in ambulance.
SPEAKER_00A nurse said to me, Have you ever thought about being a paramedic? And I was like, No.
SPEAKER_01I've taken opportunities that have come up, and there've been really different opportunities. And I think that's really important, probably for anyone listening.
SPEAKER_00I was in New South Wales at the time working with the federal government initiatives, and I saw this advertisement for secondary triage for a director. It was a brand new role. I read the PD, and see, I feel like it was that one moment in life that you may not get, but everyone wants, where you read the job and you read the PD, and you're like, that's made for me.
SPEAKER_01I think from a Corvanta perspective, it's really nice to be able to see what other ambulance services are doing in the technical space and what their needs are. And I get to influence the solutions that Corvanta provides. And then I drove up this busy street with half the fence and the gate trailing behind the ambulance.
SPEAKER_00No, in good old ambulance, how long did the banter last thereon?
SPEAKER_01Lindsay, isn't it great we've launched ambulance insights? But we thought maybe we should share a little bit about ourselves.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I think absolutely. I think it's been great. We're here at this year Congress, and we've had so many great people talk to us in Adelaide, and then I suddenly realized, and um, I don't think people actually know who we are. So I thought, how about we have this chat? Maybe do it a little bit different. How's that sound?
SPEAKER_01Sounds great.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So I was gonna launch straight into let's do like quick fire round, right? So like people can get to know us in a bit of a different way. So how about we just ask some questions? I've taken some notes, I'm not sure if you have, but um, we'll see what our answers are.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's go.
SPEAKER_00All right. So what's the first job yet? My first job was at the Rangers Football Ground in Glasgow in Scotland, and I worked in the hospitality area, and I didn't last long because I realized I didn't really enjoy football or soccer here in Australia, as what some people identify as, and I wasn't very good at hospitality, so I didn't last long. That was my first job, right when I turned 16.
SPEAKER_0116. Well, mine was uh a little bit different. I was uh at 10, at the ripe old age of 10. I started my working career as a with my with my paper round. I did have a paper around. I didn't even think. Delivering junk mail to my neighbours.
SPEAKER_00So you're the reason that on my post box it says, do not put junk mail like What's one thing that people always get wrong about you?
SPEAKER_01I think people see me in my professional life as someone who's done a few things and been reasonably successful at them and thinks that carries across to my personal life. And one of my one of my good friends actually said uh once he got to know me, he sort of said, Oh, things are really quite different. Like your car's not serviced, like your carpet all looks really bad, your curtains are all like Yeah. My personal person owner outside of work is a little bit different, is a wee bit different.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I love that by the way. Yeah. I like I feel like that's only a good friend that can say that to you. Yeah, I feel like I'm a bit similar actually. I used to always say to people, I never feel like a grown-up. And I still feel like that. And then my friends all look at me and they're like, Are you actually for real? Like they're like, you do all these roles and positions that they all think is something really quite fancy or high up, and I'm like, Yeah, but I've still not been food shopping and my fridge is empty, and I don't feel like I'm winning at life. And also I don't feel like I do anything great. I'm just kind of like I think every working full-time person, you're just balancing everything at the same time, and you can all do your best as well.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I still feel like I just left school sometimes, but it was a wee while ago now.
SPEAKER_00I won't ask, I won't ask the age, don't worry. Set.
SPEAKER_01If you could master one skill, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00See, I feel like everything I want to see, I think I should be able to go and do. I'd love to be able to like speak a language or like sign language. These are things I've tried and just not be very good at. So I think I'd see something like languages. I feel like once you have languages, and that would be inclusive of sign language, because I'm really big on communication and communicating. Maybe that's why I'm co-hosting a podcast.
SPEAKER_01Do you know the the sign language alphabet? No, not at all. Easy one to start with. A, B, C.
SPEAKER_00Okay, you win. You win. Well, if what about yourself though? What would you if you could master a skill?
SPEAKER_01I can't really I can't really think of one off the top of my head.
SPEAKER_00What about if I come up with one for you?
SPEAKER_01Okay, hit me.
SPEAKER_00What about being able to stand upright on an electric skateboard?
SPEAKER_01Or am I letting your secret- Yeah, no, that's uh that's a really good point, Lindsay. Um the electric skateboard has been shelved since that incident. Um, so I'm gonna I'm gonna save my head knocks for for snowboarding and mountain biking.
SPEAKER_00Okay. We'll hold maybe we'll hold that story for later.
SPEAKER_01What's your uh go-to coffee order?
SPEAKER_00I think it depends like as well in like different states, I feel like, because I've lived in so many different states. So if I'm not sure about where I am or like what their coffee's like, I just go for the good old flat white. Like I just like a coffee, a strong coffee. If I'm in like Western Australia, I like go for like a long mac topped up. And like Melbourne, sometimes you get a bit of a magic. So I think it just depends. But I'll just go for a simple flat white. Nothing fancy here.
SPEAKER_01Would you believe after 20 years of shift work, I'm still not a coffee drinker.
SPEAKER_00No, I know that. I was wondering how you were gonna answer this question. I thought, were you actually gonna admit that to everybody?
SPEAKER_01No, that everybody said you'll you'll start when you start nursing, and I didn't. And then they said you start when you start in the control center, which I didn't. And then they said, you'll start when you start on the road, and I still haven't.
SPEAKER_00Do you know and yeah, mine was a bit like starting coffee was a bit like it was a really good way. I got into a leadership position. And when I was younger, before I even came into ambulance, and I worked out there was two groups of leaders, the smokers or the coffee. And I was like, I'll go with the coffee drinkers. And then um Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm better than the smoky, right. And then when I got to ambulance, I was like, okay, I can do this coffee drinking. And like I worked with this like quite older mentor in the ambulance, and at every job we used to finish, they used to make a coffee. So we had these little coffee cups in the ambulance, little Ness Cafe, like good old call the blend. And until I realized, I think I went home one day and I said to my partner, I have like, I don't feel great. I think I have palpitations. And then he like checked my pulse and he's like, Why is your heart rate racing? Anyway, I realized we'd done eight jobs and I'd had eight coffees because after every job they'd be like coffee, and I was like so junior, I was like, okay, I just sit there drinking my coffee. And then I went back the next day and was like, hot chocolate for me now it's a drink. So I wanted to get in with them still, but I didn't go for coffee. Yeah, yeah. I just remembered that as you said it.
SPEAKER_01That's a lot of coffee.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it was, yeah, yeah. Talking about especially from the younger days on the ambulance, are you willing to share what would you be willing to admit the most embarrassing moment that you've had in an ambulance?
SPEAKER_01I've never had an accident per se whilst driving. But I guess this counts as one. I've never had a vehicle-to-vehicle accident.
SPEAKER_00I love the way you like put pre-tech yeah. You don't need to tell us which service.
SPEAKER_01No, no, I won't, so I'll keep that quiet. So I uh I was working with an old friend actually, uh an ex-nursing colleague, and uh we attended attended this um this uh poor old woman's address and she had a really narrow driveway on a really busy street, really busy main street. So I'm like, I've got to get the ambulance off the street so we can unload and everything like that. She goes, You sure you want to reverse down there? Like, yeah, I'm good, I'm good. So I reversed down there, fine. She's going, Oh, I was good. So we went in there, this woman was as sick as they come. I'm like, Oh, I better get the car out so that our backup crew can transport this patient.
SPEAKER_00I think we're all visualizing it. We know where you're going here.
SPEAKER_01The uh sidestep that was stuck out. So I'm blaming the sidestep for this that was stuck out, caught on the gate of the person's fence, and then I drove up this busy street with half the fence and the gate uh trailing behind the ambulance.
SPEAKER_00No, in good old ambulance, how long did the banter last there on?
SPEAKER_01Oh, it's still going across two jurisdictions, and I'm constantly reminded of it.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I can imagine for sure. Because I feel like mine is it's a it's a car, so of course I feel like it has to be a car. And we ha we'd waited for months for this um car, and there was I have to explain the first one first. So there was an incident where we'd waited for this brand new car. It was a response car for myself. It was a good old Honda uh FRV or CRV back then. And uh anyway, I got into a crash like week one, I think, of having this brand. Everyone loved my car. I was bragging about how nice it smelled, and then we got in a crash. Not my fault, I was fine. That was okay. But then the car got sent away and had to get fixed. And um, the main part was I couldn't live that down because everyone decided it was all over the news that paramedic had crashed the car and it was everywhere. So everyone decided to post it all over my office, the photos, there were balloons, reminding me all the time that I had done this. And then I got the car back for about two days. And then as I was, it was like a Sunday morning, totally can remember this like it was yesterday. And as I was about to back out of this space, and as I had my foot on the clutch, because we're in the UK, we have clutches, and uh it's manual, proper driving. And um, and as I go to go, this guy knocks my window, and it was like I just got the fright of my life, took my foot off the clutch, and all you could hear in the whole housing estate was this almighty bang. And immediately I thought, first of all, oh no, I have a damaged have I damaged someone else's car, and then all I could think was I am never living this down for the second time. And then uh when we looked in, it was minimal damage, didn't even have to report it. There was nothing there, just some data rentis. So I feel like I never lived that one down for a long time. Not that I'm traumatized or anything.
SPEAKER_01It's like mine, there was no damage to the ambulance.
SPEAKER_00Winning, just someone's gate. So I think that people might have got to know us a little bit better, and uh, I feel like I got to know you a little bit better as well. About our accidents. I'm thinking maybe they might want to know a little bit more about our careers. Um, I'm sure, you know, we've had very different uh careers to kind of what most people would have. So how about how about I introduce you a little bit and then you introduce me and we have a bit of a chat? That sounds like a good plan? Sounds good. Alright, so I do have a little bit here. I'm just gonna I'm just gonna read it. So I'd like to welcome my co-host, Hanwei Lee. And if we were to describe you, we'd be saying ice climber, sometime caver, paramedic, nurse, mentor, and generalist in the ambulance and health sector. What a what a mix. I mean, I'm just gonna call it straight out ice climber. I do everyone clearly wants to know more details there.
SPEAKER_01It's as red. Literally. You put sharp things on your feet called crampons, you get a couple of ice axes in your hands, and you climb up frozen waterfalls essentially.
SPEAKER_00Crazy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you are a bit of an adrenaline junkie, though, right?
SPEAKER_01Well controlled.
SPEAKER_00Okay, controlled. That's the paramedic in you, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, control for it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And follow the CPG of cleaning. Okay, sounds good.
SPEAKER_01How about I introduce uh you, Lindsay, to our listeners? So, Lindsay Mackay, she's a wife, a mother, an executive, a mentor, a coach, and now a podcaster. Um so yeah, just wanted to introduce uh Lindsay Mackay, ASM.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you very much. I should have said that earlier as well. Upon Willie, the ESM.
SPEAKER_01It's okay. Lindsay, that's um there's there are a lot of individual roles there. How do you juggle being a really busy executive with being a mother, a wife, a mentor, and I know that's really important work to you, your mentoring work like how does that all fit together? How does how do you sleep?
SPEAKER_00Um, I mean I have a toddler, so no, would be the real answer to that. And I probably thankfully I do drink coffee. That keeps me going. I don't actually think I do any of it amazing. And and I'm pretty honest about that. I think anyone that says they have it all together, I think they're fibbing, to be honest. I think I agree with that. Yeah, I just feel like I try I think one of my like I've learned over the time, because I do so many things, is about type management. And I think that's how I manage it. But it's some days I don't always feel like I'm doing it well, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist at times, but I just that's something I've had to learn to maybe live with, not being a perfectionist, but making sure that it's I'm balancing it all as well as possible.
SPEAKER_01It's good rather than perfect.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think that's what we have to strive for at times.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I look, I thoroughly agree with that. And I think that's really one lesson I've learned through my management career is that striving for perfection, you're destined to fail, really.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think anyone who tells me they're they can do it is I'd like to know how. Like it's just life is hard at times and acknowledging that is great and accepting, I think, is even more important with him from for everybody. But I think when um like when I think of like ourselves, like and where we probably differ, you know, in our career, you know, you've obviously worked across a couple of jurisdictions, you've done government, you're in private sector now. Is that what we would call Corvant? Private sector. Yeah, private sector.
SPEAKER_01Commercial, commercial, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you've kind of had this unlinear career. And and I know obviously because I know you that wasn't what you set out to to do. But like how's that work? How does that work for you?
SPEAKER_01I thought uh as a teenager, I thought I would be a microflight paramedic on the helicopter, strutting around in my Tyvek overalls and flying on that machine. Look, um, and that's certainly not where I ended up. And that's okay. That's okay. I I think coming going to Tassie really put me on a prior sort of tri career trajectory that sort of didn't really I never thought I'd go down. And well actually the story is that somebody just twisted my arm to take a project management job because I'd had some project management experience for our volunteer life and tr secondary triage. And I said no about half a dozen times, and then they kept twisting, and then I finally said yes, and really that led me on a dirt career journey that's really wasn't where I thought it would be, and yeah, I'm really okay with that. Do you know, is there a little part of me that goes, Oh, I wish I could have been on the helicopter, but I get a little bit of that with the wilderness paramedicing.
SPEAKER_00I uh as I say, because we do know each other, I think it's good to share that you started your career with young, like in St. John's, right? So like I can totally imagine young Hanway sat there saying, I'm gonna be on the helicopter, and then where you are today, which like personally I think should be super proud of, it's a very different route, but it's amazing. And the helicopter can be easy, right?
SPEAKER_01Don't tell the helicopter. But Lindsay, you've you've had a really non-linear, sort of, I guess, non-traditional career in ambulance and health as well. I mean, I know you never intended to be a paramedic, you sort of fell into that sort of by accident. Had executive leadership positions in multiple jurisdictions, now you're a senior exec in in health. Is that where you thought your career would end up?
SPEAKER_00No, absolutely not. Yeah, it's even hard when you're trying to articulate it, right? Like, no, I yeah, like I fell into it as like I've shared with you and and um I've shared at a few other events. You know, I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I left high school and I thought, you know, I'll go and I kind of fell into uh, you know, I worked for a supermarket and then I got on their leadership course, and then I kind of dealt with a whole lot of situations where I was like, actually, I'm really calm under pressure, I'm very methodical, and I worked through process. And a nurse said to me, Have you ever thought about being a paramedic? And I was like, No. And but I knew what paramedics were because I'd experienced them when I was younger with some family members who'd had some emergencies. So I kind of knew that real superficial view. And then, yeah, a year later I applied to uni and did some inquiry and went to university and that was it. And then at uni, you know, I just had we were this, I think the second year of like paramedics in Britain that actually went to university. So we were seen really different. And I always remember this guy, Royce, I'll never forget him, and he said to me, you know, it took me 10 to 15 years to be a paramedic, and then it took me another 10 years to be a leader in paramedicine. He's like, and you've done it in three years. And he was like, What is next for Lindsay? And he was just being genuine. And I said, I have no clue, but I don't think the path was written. And I think then I've just decided to write my own path because I just didn't want to stay somewhere static. So that's when I ended up that opportunity came, come to Australia. And prior to that, I just said yes to everything. So like I'm one of these people that you just say yes.
SPEAKER_01I think that's it's a really good point. I've kind of also said yes to everything. With some arm twisting required sometimes.
SPEAKER_00Don't forget the arm twisting.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, I've taken opportunities that have come up, and they've been really different opportunities. And I think that's really important, probably for anyone listening. Well, for our for our listeners, is that And don't get me wrong, I think I think we actually need really intelligent, driven, highly qualified people to stay on the tools in ambulance, because you need those people as mentors and guides at modeling that that that behavior and that I want to be that paramedic. But yeah, if you are looking to step outside some of those more traditional roles, I think absolutely, I think it's really important. It's something that can help saying saying literally saying yes to everything.
SPEAKER_00Most definitely. And I think the other thing I just want to add to that, I think what I do, especially with a lot of coaching that I do with especially kind of women in paramedicine and with um people across ambulance is really around paramedics have got the most, in my view, fantastic transferable skills. Just staying in one jurisdictional service and working your way up and down may work for some, but there are so many amazing opportunities. And you know, from going to Safe Care Victoria and working with an amazing CEO and leadership team, I've been able to experience that actually my voice and what I've learned, I can translate to a whole new environment. And it's very interesting because um uh Louise McKinley is a CEO there, and she very often, I'm not sure if she even realizes it, sends me messages where at the end of things she'll say, Oh, great point, Lindsay. Thanks for your pragmatic approach. So I've never realized how pragmatic I am. And I think is that other people might think things are an emergency. And maybe my brain thinks, or maybe we can spend the two days actually unpacking and doing this right and getting it right. Nobody's dying at this moment in time, but we can address it differently. So I'd love people to realize that actually there's other options. Use your skills. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_01I wholeheartedly agree. Those soft skills that paramedics have that that are integral to the job that we do on the road, they are so transferable.
SPEAKER_00I think there's some great points about the soft skills. And earlier, though, if I just go back to something you mentioned about really having opportunities. Obviously, and Alex saying yes to things, but something that we obviously over the last few months that you and I have learned that we have something a bit in common that others people told us they knew about us, but we didn't realise. And I think that is that we both have at some point had a connection to Ambiance Victoria and their secondary triage. It's what I know it as. I think you knew it as something slightly different.
SPEAKER_01It was RefCom in in in my early day. So yeah, so I answered uh an ad in the paper for uh secondary triage nurses back in 2003, and that was my first real stint in ambulance. And when we started, there was nothing. There was uh there was no protocols. We decided on the system, the triage system. There was five nurses and one paramedic. And yeah, we wrote all the protocols, we wrote all the call handling. And sometimes we'd sit there and only answer one call an hour. And I know things are quite different now, Lindsay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think I just love it. The fact that you I just have this image now of like you almost like in this basement is sounded like the way it got described to me, and like you're sat there as this nurse in this new environment in an ambulance service doing like one, like you say one call an hour. How many did you dive there? Was it like one a day?
SPEAKER_01Uh we still had about a 30 to 40 percent diversion, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I mean, in those small numbers, stop bragging. Yeah, come on. Um, yeah, I mean, I turned up in um to AV in um 2000, it would have been 2019. And yeah, it definitely wasn't an ad in the paper, I can say. Like things have progressed. So yeah, I was in New South Wales at the time working with the federal government initiatives, and and I saw this advertisement for secondary triage for a director. It was a brand new role. I read the PD and And see, I feel like it was that one moment in life that you may not get, but everyone wants, where you read the job and you read the PD and you're like, that's made for me. I literally would, if I could have made my dream job, that everything ticked every box of everything that I'd done. And so I applied. I may have spoken to my partner first and was like, do you think I should apply? He read it and he was like, you've already applied in your mind. And I'm like, yeah, I have. So I applied and then got the job ultimately. And and yeah, took it from even by that point, you talk about 2003. This was 2019. There was still, there was only 30, maybe 30, 35 permanently appointed practitioners, they were called by that point. It was a mix of nurses, mainly paramedics, though. And by the time I left, six years later, it was we'd taken it from that 30 to I think there's about 180 permanently appointed as a rotational pool. It takes thousands upon thousands of calls.
SPEAKER_01Something like 30% of IV's triple zero call?
SPEAKER_00It takes just over 30%. Yeah. And then diverts around when I left, I think they were at about 20% 2021, and they wanted to get it to 25. We had aspirational goals, getting to 30%. But I'm not sure where they're at today, but yeah, I just love that we had that connection that we never knew, but others told us that we had. I think, but I think it's the opportunity. So yes. Like I just took a yeah, let's give this a go. And you did that all those years earlier.
SPEAKER_01So with your position at Safer Care Victoria, have you still got any connection with the ambulance industry? Which is a bit of a weird question given your SIA, but that is.
SPEAKER_00Um so yes, aside from Ad Safer Care, we work with all health services and ambulance Victoria, so regularly in connection with them. But I actually am still a registered paramedic and I have a casual contract with AV, so I still do work with them as well. Because um I, you know, I I've always had this feeling that in leadership you should still be connected to being a paramedic and have that. For me, it's my roots now. And uh it's been nearly 20 years. I don't feel like I want to lose that. But I suppose I could go straight back to you. I mean, you are obviously you can you're working as I think you called it earlier, an industry consultant.
SPEAKER_01An industry consultant.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So, like, are you you but you're still practicing as well, is what I know. And something around wilderness, could you still do something around the wilderness paramedicine?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so Tassie has uh wilderness paramedics, and yeah, I guess combined with my industry consultant role with Corvanta, it's a great mix. It's a really unique combo. One minute I'm recording a podcast at CAA with Lindsay. Next week I might be on a wilderness paramedic job on the side of the mountain. And it's a really good combo. I think from a Corvanta perspective, it's really nice to be able to see what other ambulance services are doing in the technical space and what their needs are. And I get to influence the solutions that Corvanta provides so that there's essentially a better outcome for for for the ambulance services.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's great. And again, it just shows to that original our kind of intent when we started chatting earlier, so you can get to know as also know, again, there's so many different opportunities. So you've got this industry consultant, your wilderness paramedic that I've learned definitely more about today, and and then just being a paramedic in general and the connections to then now we're doing a podcast together. Yeah. Something I didn't think, although it might have also connected your twisted arm moment that you mentioned earlier, that I may have somebody may have twisted my arm to do this, but but it's been great to be at CA. I've definitely learned something about you today, and hopefully others have as well, and have got to know us a little bit better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, agreed. I think that's us for this episode. I can't wait to do our other episodes with you and um take our listeners on a bit of a journey.
SPEAKER_00A global journey at that. Really excited. I know we've got coming up in the next couple of weeks. We've got Gail Christie from West Australia. We've obviously we have filmed because we're not gonna miss an opportunity, are we? So we've got a really exciting episode. Maybe we'll keep it between ourselves, Shed, who's coming up on that one. Agreed? Okay, we'll keep that one to ourselves. So we've had Tony, we've got Gail, two fantastic ones to start, and then we're gonna have some more great people coming up into the future. I think the thing I would only say is that uh we just need people who are subscribed. I'm pretty much enjoying this. You enjoying it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, don't miss our uh our podcasts. Hit the subscribe button.
SPEAKER_00I think it sounds great. All right, thank you.